Regarding the "unpaid labor" complaints, a lot of it is self-inflicted in my observation. Most women have rather strong opinions about how the house should be decorated, its state of cleanliness, what the children should eat/watch/do, etc.; whereas men tend to either not care nearly as much or care about different aspects. For example, my husband is very vigilant about the functional aspects of our home but he probably couldn't even tell you what color the walls are painted or what color our dishes are; and while he was a lot less preoccupied with what the children were reading or what TV shows they watched he was very adamant about them needing to have outdoor physical playtime every day. His standard of "clean" was "dishes washed, floor swept, counters are not sticky, things are picked up but not necessarily put in the correct places," and he thought decor items, throw pillows, candles, and making beds were needlessly fussy as from his point of view they served no useful function. Similarly, he thinks things like sending birthday cards or giving teacher gifts at the end of the year are a waste of time, as cards just get tossed in the recycling bin and does the teacher really need another coffee mug?
I think a lot of women have a strong instinct to have full control of the house and children, and become very upset when they realize that their husband is unlikely to fully comply with their standards the way a nanny or a housekeeper would be expected to. So, they seethe inwardly thinking "I have to do EVERYTHING myself if I want it done properly!" or "He keeps trying to do things but I have to constantly nag and supervise in order to ensure he does it the way I want, why can't he take the initiative and do everything MY WAY without having to be constantly corrected?"
When I was a full-time stay-at-home mom, I took a lot of pride in cooking tasty, nutritious meals, baking my own bread, making everything from scratch, etc.. Nutrition is a special interest of mine; and I freely admit I have some control issues with food. When I went back to work full-time, my husband took over most of the cooking because I had a long commute and got home late, whereas he worked from home. This meant I had to give up control over dinner; but the tradeoff was I didn't have to think about it any more - he always had dinner on the table when I walked in the door. I learned to keep my mouth shut about "is this marinara sauce FROM A JAR????!! This bread isn't whole wheat and it has preservatives!" because the alternative of having to do all the cooking after a long day in the office and commuting was unappealing.
The few women I have known who are happy being the main breadwinner while their husband is the house-spouse tend to be mildly ADHD-ish types who struggle a bit with schedules, neatness, organization, and planning - and are thus quite happy to let their husbands have free reign with the cooking, cleaning and childcare while they focus on their jobs.
I've noticed that many women often complain about the men in their homes not helping with chores. However, when these men do try to help, it's rarely done the way the women prefer.
The issue here is that women usually refuse to either patiently teach a man to do chores to their standards or accept that he might do them differently. Instead, they decide that it's not worth asking for his help, so they end up doing everything themselves.
This leads to women claiming that men use "weaponized incompetence" to avoid housework, reinforcing the stereotype that most men are lazy and entitled.
This also sometimes leads men to lacking confidence or feeling like no matter what they do, it's never good enough.
This was my story growing up as a boy. My mom would become angry that we (my brother and I) never helped out, but when we tried to, it never measured up to her standard.
I believed as a child that she resented the fact that I wasn’t born female, and this belief has caused me a lot of grief later on in life. I think I have finally come to terms with my maleness, but only after half a lifetime of depression centering around the fact that I would have been valued more as a female.
Haha, I know how that is. By my mom's measure, you'd think I was one of the biggest slobs ever, but throughout my adulthood, numerous others have commented on how clean and tidy I am. My mom molded my habits without even realizing it.
This is probably true in many cases. However, there’s also the phenomenon where men pretend not to care so that they can get out of doing any work. Do I really believe that my husband wants to live in a house where the dogs have had accidents all over the floor and no one has cleaned it up? Does he really believe that bills don’t need to be paid? Of course not, but he knows if he plays chicken he’ll win, because he can tolerate them longer than I can. So I end up doing everything, and he can claim it’s because I care about these things so I’m doing it for myself. It’s just manipulation.
Oh, they do that for sure! My husband always pulled the "too-incompetent to change a diaper" thing, claiming he "didn't know what to do because they're girls" (he did eventually master changing a diaper by the third kid). But, if I am brutally honest with myself, I have to admit that I do the same thing to him. I am perfectly capable of changing the oil in my truck, changing a flat tire on my bike, and doing some basic home repairs myself - but I feign incompetence because I don't like doing these things. If he is procrastinating on a maintenance task, I often will go and start doing it incorrectly because that will immediately mobilize him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT DRILL? give to to me, you're doing this all wrong - here, I'll do it."
Yeah, no kidding! He will “not see” the dog accident, and then will sit on the couch watching TV while I’m on my hands and knees scrubbing it and dragging the carpet shampooer down the stairs to clean it. I don’t know how he justifies this in his mind.
He has an aunt who tried that. She was tired of cleaning up after her husband and kids so she stopped doing it. This kicked off a 40 year long game of chicken where no one so much as took out the trash and resulted in a hoarder house. The husband died a few years back but one adult son still lives in the house with her and from what I understand it’s still the same - entire rooms filled with trash and narrow pathways from one place to another through trash piled almost to the ceiling.
I’m glad that worked for you but I know my husband and he’s that stubborn and I can see how that story would end - I would eventually leave him when I couldn’t stand living there anymore.
She should have left that man. That man doesn't even respect her as a person. Honest question, are you scared of doing the same and your husband leaving you? If he does leave, what would you do? Don't you think your life would be easier?
Yes, she probably should have, but it was a different time (she’s in her 80s now) and her circumstances didn’t really enable it. I also think she has mental health issues, although whether those existed before her marriage I have no way of knowing. (She also got married when she was 14 😳. To a man in his 20s.😬 Different times for sure.)
My own situation is somewhat more complicated. My husband has some very good qualities and some bad ones (probably like every other person in the world, including me). There are good times and bad times. Sometimes he’ll do something egregious (like pretend not to see the dog pee spot on the floor) and I’ll be steaming mad. He can be a bit lazy, while I’m ambitious, and I sometimes feel taken advantage of. I’m not afraid of him leaving - he has no reason to do so. I can’t force him to change, I only get to decide to stay or leave. There have been times I’ve considered leaving but most days the good outweighs the bad.
I think there is a subset of men who don't "like" their wives in an empathetic human way. A wife is a good accessory to have, like a truck. And like a truck, you can push it too far and maybe it won't work so well or you'll need a replacement. But the idea that it's feelings about your expectations matter is foreign to them.
The important thing here is both that you compromised on your standards without resentment AND that he stepped up and did the cooking (for example.)
Basically, you both care about and respect each other.
It’s a harder case when there really is an unpleasable women or do-nothing man in the picture. When one side is complaining about the other in these debates, it’s hard to tell from the outside which of these scenarios is closer to the truth.
Yes, it helps that we are both pretty chill in terms of temperament. It takes a lot to make either of us angry; so our various shortcomings don't really faze us all that much.
I do know couples where one or the other is truly impossible to please, or is a lazy freeloader - and it is kind of weird how often lazy freeloaders and people with impossibly high standard seem to be attracted to each other! However, as my friend (a divorce attorney) puts it, "Tens don't marry twos!" so I tend to think that in most cases there's some bad behavior from both parties.
Completely agree regarding the ‘unpaid work’ point. Countless females I’ve known (some of whom are close friends and family) have said “He does nothing around the house/he’s useless and I end up doing myself”. When what they really mean is “it’s not been done the way I would have”.
I had one such conversation with one of my sisters and challenged her “if HE had a surprise day off and cleaned the whole house by the time you got home from work, could you easily sleep that night without changing a SINGLE thing”? Never in a million years 😂
My personal mantra is "better it get done badly by someone else than done at all by me." When I explain this to some women they look surprised.
That said, I have literally watched the following unfold: woman went to put two kids to bed and asked the husband to keep an eye on the 18mo. The toddler climbed up the back of the couch and fell off the back and was crying hysterically.
Husband did not move from his dinner. After a few minutes, the mom had to interrupt bedtime with the other kids to sooth the toddler.
All I can say is that if you need someone to explain to you that crying babies should be soothed, then the problem isn't your wife.
This is so spot on and my husband is very similar to yours. Thanks for sharing your take, I enjoyed reading it. Substack is giving me hope for the world!
F off! I'm a bachelor who keeps his house meticulous clean and in order, like monk, before going out and having a day of intense physical activity, mental training for medical school and Spiritual study. Although now realize I'm in a conundrum.
As an old married man with daughters, one thing that strikes me about these stories is the willingness of young women to date young men who clearly won’t make good husbands and fathers. And if that isn’t bad enough, some young women compound the problem by moving in with them and even having children with them out of wedlock. Part of this is society’s overly casual attitude towards dating and sex. Part of it is probably because some women are attracted to “bad boys” who they mistakenly think that they can change. Regardless, women are the gatekeepers of sex. And young men want sex. Imagine what would happen if young women across the board refused to even give young men who don’t have their act together the time of day, much less have sex with them or move in with them. I bet a lot of these young men would grow up pretty quick!
Before marrying my husband I made sure to get his committment to splitting household duties in a clear verbal pronouncement. It baffles me how many people tie the knot without discussing the things they are going to argue about for the rest of their lives.
Your daughters have the benefit of having a dad who is there for them and a stable home. A lot of children didn't always have dad around, or had a bad example of how a dad should act, and dated/married what they were familiar with because they didn't know there was something else. A stable home and present, non-abusive parents is so, so important for children and their future happiness and lifestyle choices.
I turned out to be much better at training for the work of my career than actually doing it. I found this out because in midlife I married a woman with far more talent for the job than I could ever have. So I pulled her out of her dead-end “woman’s work” and rigorously trained her, while fighting every step of the way alongside her for her rights in a certified “man’s business”.
Within 10 years, she rose to the top of one of the toughest markets in the US, Los Angeles. When she retired, it took SIX men and women to replace her. Yes, there were a few awkward moments, mainly with her single friends, when her income passed the ten-times-mine mark, but she always attributed her success to my training, and I didn’t entirely disagree.
But she wouldn’t give up management of the finances—and I didn’t really care—until disaster loomed around the time I retired early. I had always done all the cooking, so with the finances turned over to me, she was freed to think about nothing but work for her last 10 years. The results were spectacular, both at home and professionally.
The point being… that we both navigated all of the rapids you mention here (and we both came in with two failed marriages in the rear-view mirror), but we always did it together and never lost sight of the main goal, which was the strengthening of the relationship itself. And if you stay single-minded on that, you tend to get what you want.
It sounds like you and your wife have mutual respect and trust. It's wonderful that your wife was able to receive the training and support that you provided for her, and that she had gratitude for your contributions even when she gained success. Although she's making most of the money, your marriage sounds like a marriage of equals. That's to the credit of both of you.
Thank you! I should add that I retired early partly because the size and scope of her job acquired a tech dimension that was a specialty of mine, and in working for her, I could no longer afford the time “wasted” on my own job. But yes, huge respect all around, and I was more than happy to let her deal with the public face of the work and relationship. Along the way we broke nearly all the gender-based rules mentioned in the post above, but had too much fun doing so. 33 years and counting.
I think when you add little kids to the picture is when the breadwinning woman situation starts to get more complicated. At least for me, this is definitely when the biological differences between men and women start to become very, very obvious, and it really starts to make sense why men had that traditional provider role for hundreds of years in the first place.
I don't see why Ms. Gosetti's response to her boyfriend's behavior is unreasonable, even if the author describes it as "a distinctly female response."
The author goes on to say:
"How many men do you know who would divorce their wives because she makes half as much money as he does? Or because she isn’t as career-oriented or as educated as he is? Or because the labor involved in running a household—paid work, housework, and child care—isn’t evenly distributed?"
The issue is not that the distribution of the labor involved in running a household isn't evenly distributed. It is that despite the fact that the boyfriend makes less money and is not as career-oriented or as educated as she is, when the boyfriend has an opportunity to try to even that distribution by doing more of the housework and child care, he chooses not to. Perhaps the author would characterize that as "a distinctly male response."
Well, we don't KNOW that "when the boyfriend has an opportunity to try to even that distribution by doing more of the housework and child care, he chooses not to." We haven't heard his side. It could be that he does, but it's not to Gosetti's standards. More than likely, the two did not flesh all this out prior to having a child together, nor did they get married after the fact and decide who was going to do what work-family wise. They just "slid" into their arrangement, which has everything to do with this problem. They are not committed, or at least one person isn't, and thus aren't building a life together with a lifestyle they've BOTH agreed to.
If they're bothing working the same number of hours a week for pay, then they have equal time available at home for housework. Why should one of them spend more of their free time on housework than the other?
I agree with a lot of this. It's been my experience with men -- even my husband has admitted one of the things he liked about me was that I wasn't in a girl-boss role when we met and was keen on STAH motherhood, willing to be dependent on him. I'm smarter than him in a couple of ways, but for the most part, he's a bit smarter than me, which I like. And he has a good job.
Something that's occurred to me -- and please, fellow commenters, feel free to point out errors in this thinking -- is that girls/women mature faster than boys/men. So we have an advantage in grade school, being cognitively a bit more mature, which leads to higher university acceptance, and then to better career options. But by our early to mid-twenties, men start to catch up. A lot of women seem to be struggling in careers that they find stressful, which they may not be cognitively suited for. While guys who would be good in more cognitively difficult careers miss the opportunity because of slower development.
I also noticed that pregnancy and early motherhood significantly affected the cognitive traits that get lumped under "IQ". I used to do a lot of freelance grant-writing for major organizations, which was pretty intellectually challenging, requiring a lot of math and writing skills. I wasn't as good after I had my first kid. My processing speed is a bit slower, my math skills took a hit, I forget words easily now. I honestly think I lost about 15 IQ points.
Here’s the painful truth: many of us, not just women, resist growth when it asks us to let go of the self we’ve built through achievement. We marry our accomplishments and in doing so, we divorce ourselves from nature, from love, and from each other.
Like the monkey with its hand stuck in the tree, clutching fruit it refuses to release, we trap ourselves with our own desires.
The past is only memory. Time slips through our fingers. The refusal to see this becomes its own kind of prison.
There’s nothing wrong with men. But sometimes, women are taught to want so much, they can’t see what’s already good in front of them.
It’s weird; all these women are saying they’re dumping their boyfriends because they want a partner and not another kid to clean up after, and you conclude they are deluded about the nature of men and women.
Shouldn’t we be lecturing men on the necessity of putting a ring on it, and also doing at least half the washing up? If we want women to accept hypogamy, the men need to make it worth their while.
No criticism of anyone who don't want to get married. But creating a child with no intention of living together and raising the child with the its other biological parent is abusive.
I agree with a lot of the article. I don’t think most women want to be the main breadwinner. And, if they earn their own money, they want to spend it on the “wants “ of life and not the “needs.” Hypergamy is absolutely a thing.
However, I think the problems arise when the wife, for whatever reason, IS the main breadwinner, but yet her husband doesn’t do hardly anything at all around the house. I had a friend who divorced over this very issue. She actually made more money than he did. She would be scrubbing the toilets on the weekend, and he would be on the couch watching the football game. She felt neglected, disrespected, and taken advantage of.
Usually in a marriage, if the woman doesn’t make as much money, works part-time, etc., she handles most of the things around the house and with the children, and rightly so. It’s a fair division of labor.
What I have a problem with is when BOTH the husband and wife are working full-time with children, and the husband thinks that his only contribution should be working the full-time job. If both are working full-time, then both really need to be contributing equally around the household as well. And the husband mowing the lawn once a week during the summer and getting the oil changed on the cars every six months doesn’t count as an equal division of labor.
True, but the underlying issue is that the couple is not aligned on lifestyle. It's perfectly reasonable for a person to NOT want to spend what little time or she has outside of work doing yet more work and never resting. Women are going to naturally gravitate toward never-ending (that's the key word) housework. Men don't care as much about the details. I'm not suggesting husbands don't have to do anything more than earn a paycheck, but I do think husbands and wives will always struggle w how to spend that time outside of work bc their priorities are different. That's one reason it's a bad idea to have both partners working full-time and year-round: the conflict never ends! Unless they both AGREE to that lifestyle and think the money is worth the trade-offs. I don't think that's usually the case tho.
Yes, totally agree that it’s usually best for the marriage if the wife doesn’t have to work full-time. Unfortunately, I think there are lots of younger men that want their cake and eat it, too. They want the full-time paycheck of their wives and then want her to do all the traditional duties around the home and with the children. To me, that shows an utter disrespect and disregard for their spouse. My divorced friend felt utterly devalued in her marriage. It kind of ceases to be a partnership at that point.
A fair division of responsibilities in a marriage should take into account the financial dynamics and mutual expectations set from the beginning. If both partners enter a marriage with the understanding that one will be the primary provider while the other takes on more domestic responsibilities, then expecting an equal split of household chores later can feel imbalanced.
However, if a woman actively chooses a partner who expects her to contribute equally to the household income, it's likely that such a partnership would naturally encourage shared responsibilities at home. The issue arises when financial security is prioritized through hypergamous choices—marrying a higher-earning partner—and then demanding complete equality in domestic responsibilities.
Ultimately, fairness isn’t about rigid equality but about alignment of expectations and contributions. A partnership thrives when both individuals acknowledge the roles they agreed to and adjust their responsibilities accordingly. Would the same expectation of equal chore-sharing exist if the financial dynamic were truly equal from the start?
It seems to me the main problem is people are treating cohabitation as a good form of marriage, when it's clearly *not* marriage. Women should know better. Don't have a child outside of marriage. Don't cohabit outside of marriage. When women set their standards low, the quality of the relationship is going to follow. There's research that shows that cohabiting couples are less likely to have successful marriages.
Suzanne I understand why you would object to the phrase “What’s his is ours, but what’s mine is mine” - after all, in a marriage, assets and resources are to be shared. I think the sentiment that is being expressed is that if a married woman works, she wants to feel that her income isn't essential for survival, but rather is to be used for "nice to haves" - vacations, home renovations, activities for the kids, etc. I think for most woman, feeling like they can depend on their husband to meet the basic needs of the household is an important part of maintaining romantic feelings - for both the man and the woman.
Do you think there is a way in which the woman feels like she “shouldn’t have to” work? Many women talk about how they do a “second shift”. Men are picking up more domestic work but the domestic sphere still belongs to women, for better or worse, and they still do most of it. Especially as if the house is messy or dirty or the children are badly behaved, it’s almost always the wife who is judged, so that motivates her to do it more than it does the man. She may feel like she’s taking on the work of both a man and a woman, if she also works a full time job. Maybe that’s why she feels entitled to pocket her income.
Most women simply have a strong desire to run their households. Even women who are the primary breadwinner don't really want to relinquish the role of wife/mom/homemaker. I think a lot of women who are the sole/primary breadwinners in their homes would really rather pay a nanny/housekeeper than have a stay at home husband - it's very unsexy to tell your husband the "correct" way to clean the kitchen or discipline the children! But you can tell hired help how you want it done. I don't think many women want to boss their husbands around that way - it's not natural - most women want to create a beautiful and peaceful home for their husbands and children to enjoy.
As far as taking on the work of both a man and a woman, I think when a married woman must work just to meet basic survival needs, then yes, she will feel like she is taking on a man's role.
Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. Putting her salary in the common pot probably feels a bit like working to meet basic survival needs and will be spent, because that is spending money. Many women want the men to make life “work”. We make life “nice”. If the house is falling apart structurally, that’s a man’s failing. If it’s messy or gross, that’s the woman’s failing. She feels she is already doing more than her fair share by working at all. So her salary should go to her and making life nice. Not to say there is no selfishness there. But like many here I think it’s more than just a woman being selfish.
Nope. Both earn? Both contribute, either for necessities or ‘nice to haves’. ‘Domestic’ work/childcare? Also shared, around whatever suits both schedules. If women are ‘suffering’ (being judged on house/children), then that is predominantly coming from other women. Females creating problems for females shouldn’t be fixed with less responsibility for females at the expense of greater pressure on the male. This is equality. Or, does equality for women only count when they are more equal than men?
The issue isn't so much equality, but rather what arrangement will lead to the greatest marital satisfaction for both husband and wife.
Also, I don't think women fear the judgement of other women - the judgment comes from within! Most women want to do the best they can for their families - this includes keeping a clean, well-running home, preparing healthy meals, etc. These things may or may not be a priority to the husband, but they are almost always a priority to the wife.
Except it isn't conveying that the woman's money is for the family's "nice to haves". It's implying that his money is for the family's needs and wants while her money is for her wants alone.
Suzanne, I hope you continue to grow your audience. You speak the truth we need to hear. Unfortunately, I have seen this breakdown in my family and community, as divorce is rampant.
To go with your note about being a provider naturally, I remember my grandfather slaved away and devoted every penny he made to his wife and nine children and their savings. As soon as my grandmother got a part-time job, she spent the earnings on her own fashion items.
This article misses a lot of stuff that isn't about status and money. Men are often unplesant, poorly conditioned and socialised, and are objectively bad, incompetent, and unreliable romantic partners regardless of the money they earn. Now that women have the choice to not settle with unromantic, unpleasant men rather than make do with mediocre partners for the societal benefits, they're choosing not to do so.
There is a lot of truth to this. But statistically speaking, both women and men are happier, healthier, and wealthier when they do manage to marry and have a good marriage. So I don’t think this trend of women going it alone is something to celebrate.
For sure, being married to a good man is better than both being single and being married to a bad man. But being single is better than being married to a bad man.
DatePsych has done lots of research on this. I also think men aren't conditioned enough to turn them into good partners, but again, that's not entirely women's fault. A lot of men's culture and media is to blame for that, as well as parents, and the education system.
I don't think this is a problem at all. Nobody is entitled to a partner, and this article wants to blame women just as much as the podcast bros do. It's tedious. No one is entitled to a partner.
Totally agree. Most women don’t want to be married to a man-child who can’t be bothered to pick up his own clothes. A good marriage is a partnership that makes both people’s lives better-not worse. A woman who is working full-time and then has to do a vast majority of all of the household chores and parenting duties is probably not leading a great life.
Absolutely! I think there are some natural divisions of labor in a healthy marriage. For instance, my wife enjoys cooking. She is also a good cook! So she does almost all of the cooking. But I wash dishes and always empty the dishwasher, a task that she finds a nuisance. It makes it easier and more pleasant when household chores are distributed by strengths and preferences. But when both the wife and husband work, they have to find a good balance. And that certainly can’t mean the wife doing most of the work!
I agree entirely! And as I mentioned below, one thing that young women could do is not give young me the time of day, much less sex, if they don’t have their act together. I am fairly confident that a lot of immature young men would grow up if that was what they needed to do to get the serious attention of young women. Another thing that others have noted here is that women do need to have high expectations. But they need to be about things that really matter. If a man is clueless and/or indifferent about home decoration or women’s fashions and the like, that shouldn’t be something that women should realistically hold against him. But if he can’t hold down a job, doesn’t ever listen to women, has bad hygiene, etc. those are issues to have high expectations about.
I have always been more "educated " than my husband and brought in more money. Never mattered. What's mine is his and vice versa. We both work hard, we are both focused on our future together.
Additionally, you don’t have to look very far to find an article/essay/post etc along the lines of “Feminism Lied to Me”, followed by “I was told I could have it all, I was wildly successful in my career, then at (insert age somewhere in the 30’s) I realised true happiness was in family and children” ending with something like “this soulless corporation didn’t love ME, just what money I could make them”.
I think this is very true.
Regarding the "unpaid labor" complaints, a lot of it is self-inflicted in my observation. Most women have rather strong opinions about how the house should be decorated, its state of cleanliness, what the children should eat/watch/do, etc.; whereas men tend to either not care nearly as much or care about different aspects. For example, my husband is very vigilant about the functional aspects of our home but he probably couldn't even tell you what color the walls are painted or what color our dishes are; and while he was a lot less preoccupied with what the children were reading or what TV shows they watched he was very adamant about them needing to have outdoor physical playtime every day. His standard of "clean" was "dishes washed, floor swept, counters are not sticky, things are picked up but not necessarily put in the correct places," and he thought decor items, throw pillows, candles, and making beds were needlessly fussy as from his point of view they served no useful function. Similarly, he thinks things like sending birthday cards or giving teacher gifts at the end of the year are a waste of time, as cards just get tossed in the recycling bin and does the teacher really need another coffee mug?
I think a lot of women have a strong instinct to have full control of the house and children, and become very upset when they realize that their husband is unlikely to fully comply with their standards the way a nanny or a housekeeper would be expected to. So, they seethe inwardly thinking "I have to do EVERYTHING myself if I want it done properly!" or "He keeps trying to do things but I have to constantly nag and supervise in order to ensure he does it the way I want, why can't he take the initiative and do everything MY WAY without having to be constantly corrected?"
When I was a full-time stay-at-home mom, I took a lot of pride in cooking tasty, nutritious meals, baking my own bread, making everything from scratch, etc.. Nutrition is a special interest of mine; and I freely admit I have some control issues with food. When I went back to work full-time, my husband took over most of the cooking because I had a long commute and got home late, whereas he worked from home. This meant I had to give up control over dinner; but the tradeoff was I didn't have to think about it any more - he always had dinner on the table when I walked in the door. I learned to keep my mouth shut about "is this marinara sauce FROM A JAR????!! This bread isn't whole wheat and it has preservatives!" because the alternative of having to do all the cooking after a long day in the office and commuting was unappealing.
The few women I have known who are happy being the main breadwinner while their husband is the house-spouse tend to be mildly ADHD-ish types who struggle a bit with schedules, neatness, organization, and planning - and are thus quite happy to let their husbands have free reign with the cooking, cleaning and childcare while they focus on their jobs.
I've noticed that many women often complain about the men in their homes not helping with chores. However, when these men do try to help, it's rarely done the way the women prefer.
The issue here is that women usually refuse to either patiently teach a man to do chores to their standards or accept that he might do them differently. Instead, they decide that it's not worth asking for his help, so they end up doing everything themselves.
This leads to women claiming that men use "weaponized incompetence" to avoid housework, reinforcing the stereotype that most men are lazy and entitled.
This also sometimes leads men to lacking confidence or feeling like no matter what they do, it's never good enough.
This was my story growing up as a boy. My mom would become angry that we (my brother and I) never helped out, but when we tried to, it never measured up to her standard.
I believed as a child that she resented the fact that I wasn’t born female, and this belief has caused me a lot of grief later on in life. I think I have finally come to terms with my maleness, but only after half a lifetime of depression centering around the fact that I would have been valued more as a female.
Haha, I know how that is. By my mom's measure, you'd think I was one of the biggest slobs ever, but throughout my adulthood, numerous others have commented on how clean and tidy I am. My mom molded my habits without even realizing it.
You do make a point, but men also do weaponize ignorance.
This is probably true in many cases. However, there’s also the phenomenon where men pretend not to care so that they can get out of doing any work. Do I really believe that my husband wants to live in a house where the dogs have had accidents all over the floor and no one has cleaned it up? Does he really believe that bills don’t need to be paid? Of course not, but he knows if he plays chicken he’ll win, because he can tolerate them longer than I can. So I end up doing everything, and he can claim it’s because I care about these things so I’m doing it for myself. It’s just manipulation.
Oh, they do that for sure! My husband always pulled the "too-incompetent to change a diaper" thing, claiming he "didn't know what to do because they're girls" (he did eventually master changing a diaper by the third kid). But, if I am brutally honest with myself, I have to admit that I do the same thing to him. I am perfectly capable of changing the oil in my truck, changing a flat tire on my bike, and doing some basic home repairs myself - but I feign incompetence because I don't like doing these things. If he is procrastinating on a maintenance task, I often will go and start doing it incorrectly because that will immediately mobilize him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT DRILL? give to to me, you're doing this all wrong - here, I'll do it."
If dogs (plural) are having accidents and he pretends he doesn’t know you have serious problems with him! Yuck!
Yeah, no kidding! He will “not see” the dog accident, and then will sit on the couch watching TV while I’m on my hands and knees scrubbing it and dragging the carpet shampooer down the stairs to clean it. I don’t know how he justifies this in his mind.
Stop doing those things and let him be angry about it. It worked here.
He has an aunt who tried that. She was tired of cleaning up after her husband and kids so she stopped doing it. This kicked off a 40 year long game of chicken where no one so much as took out the trash and resulted in a hoarder house. The husband died a few years back but one adult son still lives in the house with her and from what I understand it’s still the same - entire rooms filled with trash and narrow pathways from one place to another through trash piled almost to the ceiling.
I’m glad that worked for you but I know my husband and he’s that stubborn and I can see how that story would end - I would eventually leave him when I couldn’t stand living there anymore.
She should have left that man. That man doesn't even respect her as a person. Honest question, are you scared of doing the same and your husband leaving you? If he does leave, what would you do? Don't you think your life would be easier?
Yes, she probably should have, but it was a different time (she’s in her 80s now) and her circumstances didn’t really enable it. I also think she has mental health issues, although whether those existed before her marriage I have no way of knowing. (She also got married when she was 14 😳. To a man in his 20s.😬 Different times for sure.)
My own situation is somewhat more complicated. My husband has some very good qualities and some bad ones (probably like every other person in the world, including me). There are good times and bad times. Sometimes he’ll do something egregious (like pretend not to see the dog pee spot on the floor) and I’ll be steaming mad. He can be a bit lazy, while I’m ambitious, and I sometimes feel taken advantage of. I’m not afraid of him leaving - he has no reason to do so. I can’t force him to change, I only get to decide to stay or leave. There have been times I’ve considered leaving but most days the good outweighs the bad.
I think there is a subset of men who don't "like" their wives in an empathetic human way. A wife is a good accessory to have, like a truck. And like a truck, you can push it too far and maybe it won't work so well or you'll need a replacement. But the idea that it's feelings about your expectations matter is foreign to them.
Wow, 100% spot on. You've met my wife, I see? 😊
The important thing here is both that you compromised on your standards without resentment AND that he stepped up and did the cooking (for example.)
Basically, you both care about and respect each other.
It’s a harder case when there really is an unpleasable women or do-nothing man in the picture. When one side is complaining about the other in these debates, it’s hard to tell from the outside which of these scenarios is closer to the truth.
Yes, it helps that we are both pretty chill in terms of temperament. It takes a lot to make either of us angry; so our various shortcomings don't really faze us all that much.
I do know couples where one or the other is truly impossible to please, or is a lazy freeloader - and it is kind of weird how often lazy freeloaders and people with impossibly high standard seem to be attracted to each other! However, as my friend (a divorce attorney) puts it, "Tens don't marry twos!" so I tend to think that in most cases there's some bad behavior from both parties.
100%
Completely agree regarding the ‘unpaid work’ point. Countless females I’ve known (some of whom are close friends and family) have said “He does nothing around the house/he’s useless and I end up doing myself”. When what they really mean is “it’s not been done the way I would have”.
I had one such conversation with one of my sisters and challenged her “if HE had a surprise day off and cleaned the whole house by the time you got home from work, could you easily sleep that night without changing a SINGLE thing”? Never in a million years 😂
My personal mantra is "better it get done badly by someone else than done at all by me." When I explain this to some women they look surprised.
That said, I have literally watched the following unfold: woman went to put two kids to bed and asked the husband to keep an eye on the 18mo. The toddler climbed up the back of the couch and fell off the back and was crying hysterically.
Husband did not move from his dinner. After a few minutes, the mom had to interrupt bedtime with the other kids to sooth the toddler.
All I can say is that if you need someone to explain to you that crying babies should be soothed, then the problem isn't your wife.
That’s not a husband- it’s barely a human. It’s amazing people like this have spouses!
I have to “yes but" this.
After 10 years of marriage and hassling my husband to do his half of the housework, I decided to let go.
I put in as much effort as he did.
And… he hated it.
He literally raged that the dishes weren't magically washing themselves the way they used to.
It took more than 6 months for him to get over himself and how his horrid passive-aggressive wife would keep score about things, etc etc.
After that he came up with a list of his expectations for how the house should look. And I have held him to those standards ever since.
They happen to be pretty high standards.
This is so spot on and my husband is very similar to yours. Thanks for sharing your take, I enjoyed reading it. Substack is giving me hope for the world!
F off! I'm a bachelor who keeps his house meticulous clean and in order, like monk, before going out and having a day of intense physical activity, mental training for medical school and Spiritual study. Although now realize I'm in a conundrum.
I don't need anybody help run my castle 😂
As an old married man with daughters, one thing that strikes me about these stories is the willingness of young women to date young men who clearly won’t make good husbands and fathers. And if that isn’t bad enough, some young women compound the problem by moving in with them and even having children with them out of wedlock. Part of this is society’s overly casual attitude towards dating and sex. Part of it is probably because some women are attracted to “bad boys” who they mistakenly think that they can change. Regardless, women are the gatekeepers of sex. And young men want sex. Imagine what would happen if young women across the board refused to even give young men who don’t have their act together the time of day, much less have sex with them or move in with them. I bet a lot of these young men would grow up pretty quick!
100% that would happen
Before marrying my husband I made sure to get his committment to splitting household duties in a clear verbal pronouncement. It baffles me how many people tie the knot without discussing the things they are going to argue about for the rest of their lives.
Your daughters have the benefit of having a dad who is there for them and a stable home. A lot of children didn't always have dad around, or had a bad example of how a dad should act, and dated/married what they were familiar with because they didn't know there was something else. A stable home and present, non-abusive parents is so, so important for children and their future happiness and lifestyle choices.
I turned out to be much better at training for the work of my career than actually doing it. I found this out because in midlife I married a woman with far more talent for the job than I could ever have. So I pulled her out of her dead-end “woman’s work” and rigorously trained her, while fighting every step of the way alongside her for her rights in a certified “man’s business”.
Within 10 years, she rose to the top of one of the toughest markets in the US, Los Angeles. When she retired, it took SIX men and women to replace her. Yes, there were a few awkward moments, mainly with her single friends, when her income passed the ten-times-mine mark, but she always attributed her success to my training, and I didn’t entirely disagree.
But she wouldn’t give up management of the finances—and I didn’t really care—until disaster loomed around the time I retired early. I had always done all the cooking, so with the finances turned over to me, she was freed to think about nothing but work for her last 10 years. The results were spectacular, both at home and professionally.
The point being… that we both navigated all of the rapids you mention here (and we both came in with two failed marriages in the rear-view mirror), but we always did it together and never lost sight of the main goal, which was the strengthening of the relationship itself. And if you stay single-minded on that, you tend to get what you want.
Thank you for sharing your beautiful story.
It sounds like you and your wife have mutual respect and trust. It's wonderful that your wife was able to receive the training and support that you provided for her, and that she had gratitude for your contributions even when she gained success. Although she's making most of the money, your marriage sounds like a marriage of equals. That's to the credit of both of you.
Thank you! I should add that I retired early partly because the size and scope of her job acquired a tech dimension that was a specialty of mine, and in working for her, I could no longer afford the time “wasted” on my own job. But yes, huge respect all around, and I was more than happy to let her deal with the public face of the work and relationship. Along the way we broke nearly all the gender-based rules mentioned in the post above, but had too much fun doing so. 33 years and counting.
I think when you add little kids to the picture is when the breadwinning woman situation starts to get more complicated. At least for me, this is definitely when the biological differences between men and women start to become very, very obvious, and it really starts to make sense why men had that traditional provider role for hundreds of years in the first place.
I don't see why Ms. Gosetti's response to her boyfriend's behavior is unreasonable, even if the author describes it as "a distinctly female response."
The author goes on to say:
"How many men do you know who would divorce their wives because she makes half as much money as he does? Or because she isn’t as career-oriented or as educated as he is? Or because the labor involved in running a household—paid work, housework, and child care—isn’t evenly distributed?"
The issue is not that the distribution of the labor involved in running a household isn't evenly distributed. It is that despite the fact that the boyfriend makes less money and is not as career-oriented or as educated as she is, when the boyfriend has an opportunity to try to even that distribution by doing more of the housework and child care, he chooses not to. Perhaps the author would characterize that as "a distinctly male response."
Well, we don't KNOW that "when the boyfriend has an opportunity to try to even that distribution by doing more of the housework and child care, he chooses not to." We haven't heard his side. It could be that he does, but it's not to Gosetti's standards. More than likely, the two did not flesh all this out prior to having a child together, nor did they get married after the fact and decide who was going to do what work-family wise. They just "slid" into their arrangement, which has everything to do with this problem. They are not committed, or at least one person isn't, and thus aren't building a life together with a lifestyle they've BOTH agreed to.
Ok, but if we have no idea what the story is, you shouldn’t have used it as the entire basis of your article.
I would say despite prior discussions to marriage and children, women tend to do more caregiving, housework, and have less leisure time than men. There is a study that finds that consistently, no matter the financial situation, this is the case. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/
If they're bothing working the same number of hours a week for pay, then they have equal time available at home for housework. Why should one of them spend more of their free time on housework than the other?
I agree with a lot of this. It's been my experience with men -- even my husband has admitted one of the things he liked about me was that I wasn't in a girl-boss role when we met and was keen on STAH motherhood, willing to be dependent on him. I'm smarter than him in a couple of ways, but for the most part, he's a bit smarter than me, which I like. And he has a good job.
Something that's occurred to me -- and please, fellow commenters, feel free to point out errors in this thinking -- is that girls/women mature faster than boys/men. So we have an advantage in grade school, being cognitively a bit more mature, which leads to higher university acceptance, and then to better career options. But by our early to mid-twenties, men start to catch up. A lot of women seem to be struggling in careers that they find stressful, which they may not be cognitively suited for. While guys who would be good in more cognitively difficult careers miss the opportunity because of slower development.
I also noticed that pregnancy and early motherhood significantly affected the cognitive traits that get lumped under "IQ". I used to do a lot of freelance grant-writing for major organizations, which was pretty intellectually challenging, requiring a lot of math and writing skills. I wasn't as good after I had my first kid. My processing speed is a bit slower, my math skills took a hit, I forget words easily now. I honestly think I lost about 15 IQ points.
I've heard it explained that cognitive changes women undergo during pregnancy and early motherhood are an adaptation for nurturing.
Feminist meltdown in 3 seconds, 2, 1.... :-) Suzanne is undeniably right, but my wife (and many others) would deny this to their dying day.
Here’s the painful truth: many of us, not just women, resist growth when it asks us to let go of the self we’ve built through achievement. We marry our accomplishments and in doing so, we divorce ourselves from nature, from love, and from each other.
Like the monkey with its hand stuck in the tree, clutching fruit it refuses to release, we trap ourselves with our own desires.
The past is only memory. Time slips through our fingers. The refusal to see this becomes its own kind of prison.
There’s nothing wrong with men. But sometimes, women are taught to want so much, they can’t see what’s already good in front of them.
It’s weird; all these women are saying they’re dumping their boyfriends because they want a partner and not another kid to clean up after, and you conclude they are deluded about the nature of men and women.
Shouldn’t we be lecturing men on the necessity of putting a ring on it, and also doing at least half the washing up? If we want women to accept hypogamy, the men need to make it worth their while.
Women would do well to stop moving in and having babies with men who are not interested in or prepared for marriage.
No criticism of anyone who don't want to get married. But creating a child with no intention of living together and raising the child with the its other biological parent is abusive.
I wish I had said “invite,” rather than “create.”
I agree with a lot of the article. I don’t think most women want to be the main breadwinner. And, if they earn their own money, they want to spend it on the “wants “ of life and not the “needs.” Hypergamy is absolutely a thing.
However, I think the problems arise when the wife, for whatever reason, IS the main breadwinner, but yet her husband doesn’t do hardly anything at all around the house. I had a friend who divorced over this very issue. She actually made more money than he did. She would be scrubbing the toilets on the weekend, and he would be on the couch watching the football game. She felt neglected, disrespected, and taken advantage of.
Usually in a marriage, if the woman doesn’t make as much money, works part-time, etc., she handles most of the things around the house and with the children, and rightly so. It’s a fair division of labor.
What I have a problem with is when BOTH the husband and wife are working full-time with children, and the husband thinks that his only contribution should be working the full-time job. If both are working full-time, then both really need to be contributing equally around the household as well. And the husband mowing the lawn once a week during the summer and getting the oil changed on the cars every six months doesn’t count as an equal division of labor.
True, but the underlying issue is that the couple is not aligned on lifestyle. It's perfectly reasonable for a person to NOT want to spend what little time or she has outside of work doing yet more work and never resting. Women are going to naturally gravitate toward never-ending (that's the key word) housework. Men don't care as much about the details. I'm not suggesting husbands don't have to do anything more than earn a paycheck, but I do think husbands and wives will always struggle w how to spend that time outside of work bc their priorities are different. That's one reason it's a bad idea to have both partners working full-time and year-round: the conflict never ends! Unless they both AGREE to that lifestyle and think the money is worth the trade-offs. I don't think that's usually the case tho.
Yes, totally agree that it’s usually best for the marriage if the wife doesn’t have to work full-time. Unfortunately, I think there are lots of younger men that want their cake and eat it, too. They want the full-time paycheck of their wives and then want her to do all the traditional duties around the home and with the children. To me, that shows an utter disrespect and disregard for their spouse. My divorced friend felt utterly devalued in her marriage. It kind of ceases to be a partnership at that point.
Agree 100% Suzanne. Most women will gravitate towards taking care of the home and children, even if they work full time.
A fair division of responsibilities in a marriage should take into account the financial dynamics and mutual expectations set from the beginning. If both partners enter a marriage with the understanding that one will be the primary provider while the other takes on more domestic responsibilities, then expecting an equal split of household chores later can feel imbalanced.
However, if a woman actively chooses a partner who expects her to contribute equally to the household income, it's likely that such a partnership would naturally encourage shared responsibilities at home. The issue arises when financial security is prioritized through hypergamous choices—marrying a higher-earning partner—and then demanding complete equality in domestic responsibilities.
Ultimately, fairness isn’t about rigid equality but about alignment of expectations and contributions. A partnership thrives when both individuals acknowledge the roles they agreed to and adjust their responsibilities accordingly. Would the same expectation of equal chore-sharing exist if the financial dynamic were truly equal from the start?
It seems to me the main problem is people are treating cohabitation as a good form of marriage, when it's clearly *not* marriage. Women should know better. Don't have a child outside of marriage. Don't cohabit outside of marriage. When women set their standards low, the quality of the relationship is going to follow. There's research that shows that cohabiting couples are less likely to have successful marriages.
Suzanne I understand why you would object to the phrase “What’s his is ours, but what’s mine is mine” - after all, in a marriage, assets and resources are to be shared. I think the sentiment that is being expressed is that if a married woman works, she wants to feel that her income isn't essential for survival, but rather is to be used for "nice to haves" - vacations, home renovations, activities for the kids, etc. I think for most woman, feeling like they can depend on their husband to meet the basic needs of the household is an important part of maintaining romantic feelings - for both the man and the woman.
agreed
Do you think there is a way in which the woman feels like she “shouldn’t have to” work? Many women talk about how they do a “second shift”. Men are picking up more domestic work but the domestic sphere still belongs to women, for better or worse, and they still do most of it. Especially as if the house is messy or dirty or the children are badly behaved, it’s almost always the wife who is judged, so that motivates her to do it more than it does the man. She may feel like she’s taking on the work of both a man and a woman, if she also works a full time job. Maybe that’s why she feels entitled to pocket her income.
Most women simply have a strong desire to run their households. Even women who are the primary breadwinner don't really want to relinquish the role of wife/mom/homemaker. I think a lot of women who are the sole/primary breadwinners in their homes would really rather pay a nanny/housekeeper than have a stay at home husband - it's very unsexy to tell your husband the "correct" way to clean the kitchen or discipline the children! But you can tell hired help how you want it done. I don't think many women want to boss their husbands around that way - it's not natural - most women want to create a beautiful and peaceful home for their husbands and children to enjoy.
As far as taking on the work of both a man and a woman, I think when a married woman must work just to meet basic survival needs, then yes, she will feel like she is taking on a man's role.
Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. Putting her salary in the common pot probably feels a bit like working to meet basic survival needs and will be spent, because that is spending money. Many women want the men to make life “work”. We make life “nice”. If the house is falling apart structurally, that’s a man’s failing. If it’s messy or gross, that’s the woman’s failing. She feels she is already doing more than her fair share by working at all. So her salary should go to her and making life nice. Not to say there is no selfishness there. But like many here I think it’s more than just a woman being selfish.
Nope. Both earn? Both contribute, either for necessities or ‘nice to haves’. ‘Domestic’ work/childcare? Also shared, around whatever suits both schedules. If women are ‘suffering’ (being judged on house/children), then that is predominantly coming from other women. Females creating problems for females shouldn’t be fixed with less responsibility for females at the expense of greater pressure on the male. This is equality. Or, does equality for women only count when they are more equal than men?
The issue isn't so much equality, but rather what arrangement will lead to the greatest marital satisfaction for both husband and wife.
Also, I don't think women fear the judgement of other women - the judgment comes from within! Most women want to do the best they can for their families - this includes keeping a clean, well-running home, preparing healthy meals, etc. These things may or may not be a priority to the husband, but they are almost always a priority to the wife.
Except it isn't conveying that the woman's money is for the family's "nice to haves". It's implying that his money is for the family's needs and wants while her money is for her wants alone.
Suzanne, I hope you continue to grow your audience. You speak the truth we need to hear. Unfortunately, I have seen this breakdown in my family and community, as divorce is rampant.
To go with your note about being a provider naturally, I remember my grandfather slaved away and devoted every penny he made to his wife and nine children and their savings. As soon as my grandmother got a part-time job, she spent the earnings on her own fashion items.
This article misses a lot of stuff that isn't about status and money. Men are often unplesant, poorly conditioned and socialised, and are objectively bad, incompetent, and unreliable romantic partners regardless of the money they earn. Now that women have the choice to not settle with unromantic, unpleasant men rather than make do with mediocre partners for the societal benefits, they're choosing not to do so.
There is a lot of truth to this. But statistically speaking, both women and men are happier, healthier, and wealthier when they do manage to marry and have a good marriage. So I don’t think this trend of women going it alone is something to celebrate.
For sure, being married to a good man is better than both being single and being married to a bad man. But being single is better than being married to a bad man.
DatePsych has done lots of research on this. I also think men aren't conditioned enough to turn them into good partners, but again, that's not entirely women's fault. A lot of men's culture and media is to blame for that, as well as parents, and the education system.
I don't think this is a problem at all. Nobody is entitled to a partner, and this article wants to blame women just as much as the podcast bros do. It's tedious. No one is entitled to a partner.
Totally agree. Most women don’t want to be married to a man-child who can’t be bothered to pick up his own clothes. A good marriage is a partnership that makes both people’s lives better-not worse. A woman who is working full-time and then has to do a vast majority of all of the household chores and parenting duties is probably not leading a great life.
Absolutely! I think there are some natural divisions of labor in a healthy marriage. For instance, my wife enjoys cooking. She is also a good cook! So she does almost all of the cooking. But I wash dishes and always empty the dishwasher, a task that she finds a nuisance. It makes it easier and more pleasant when household chores are distributed by strengths and preferences. But when both the wife and husband work, they have to find a good balance. And that certainly can’t mean the wife doing most of the work!
I agree entirely! And as I mentioned below, one thing that young women could do is not give young me the time of day, much less sex, if they don’t have their act together. I am fairly confident that a lot of immature young men would grow up if that was what they needed to do to get the serious attention of young women. Another thing that others have noted here is that women do need to have high expectations. But they need to be about things that really matter. If a man is clueless and/or indifferent about home decoration or women’s fashions and the like, that shouldn’t be something that women should realistically hold against him. But if he can’t hold down a job, doesn’t ever listen to women, has bad hygiene, etc. those are issues to have high expectations about.
I appreciate your articles so much, Suzanne. Thank you.
I have always been more "educated " than my husband and brought in more money. Never mattered. What's mine is his and vice versa. We both work hard, we are both focused on our future together.
Additionally, you don’t have to look very far to find an article/essay/post etc along the lines of “Feminism Lied to Me”, followed by “I was told I could have it all, I was wildly successful in my career, then at (insert age somewhere in the 30’s) I realised true happiness was in family and children” ending with something like “this soulless corporation didn’t love ME, just what money I could make them”.