Every marriage “has” a prenuptial agreement… known as family law. Every marriage “is” a legal contract when registered with the state using a marriage license. Why would anyone with a sane mind enter into a contract where one of the parties is rewarded for breaking the contract? Having a prenuptial agreement that removes the reward for breaking the contract does more to keep the marriage together. For example, Kentucky removed some of the rewards and the divorce rates dropped!
I wouldn't advise a prenup, but since you'd likely put me in the "couldn't stay married" boat, I feel I should say something here. The fact that I'm recently divorced has been thrown in my face in arguments with liberals and feminists so much that it is honestly exhausting. I'm told I couldn't possibly know what makes a good relationship, that I must have been a poor husband, and that the lessons I learned only after separation about standing up for myself and also just how deeply a modern woman can hurt a traditional man must have been the cause of the divorce. I don't like my ex because of how she treated me, you see, so my dislike of her must have been the cause of the divorce, and not her own bad behavior.
That said, I wouldn't advise anyone against a prenup either. When I was younger, having gone through divorce as a child, I had felt that I should get a prenup if I ever got married that spelled out what fault actually looked like in the case of a divorce and that severely punished an at-fault spouse. I wish I had not listened to the theologians who erroneously told me that prenups invalidate a marriage and had gone through with that because the secular courts are rigged to harm those who wish to do the right thing in an impossible situation most of all, and for Catholics it is a double whammy because we have to get through the divorce completely before we can even petition for an annulment, which means that rather than go through a costly contested divorce as I would have preferred to protect myself, I felt forced to sign documents stating that I felt everything in our separation agreement was "fair," so that I could finally submit my petition for annulment. Everything was not fair. In fact it was an extreme injustice.
For me it's not about keeping my money from before the marriage, it's about protecting myself from someone whom I only learned after marriage was actually a manipulator, a liar, and a fraud who wanted to use me and never loved me. I wouldn't shame someone who was worried about that happening to them and took steps to protect themselves "just in case," and I also wouldn't presume that they don't feel they can trust their spouse just because of that. And I definitely wouldn't say it invalidates their marriage. Some people want to protect themselves in the context of a broken system because they know the person who says they love them today could always change and decide tomorrow that she wants to take the kids, the house, and half his income for the majority of the rest of his life.
I think the fact that you're intimately familiar with divorce is precisely what does make you know what makes a good marriage. :) I think your story, however, is more about mental illness in a spouse or psychological deficiencies (whatever you want to call it) and in those instances the conversation about prenups will no doubt feel very different.
Preparing for one’s marriage to end in divorce practically guarantees you will get divorced, just as loading up your house with sugar and alcohol will keep you from losing weight.
I think prenups trickled into the mainstream in a way similar to the HGTV-favored open floor plan for homes, people saw these as part of the habitat of the rich and famous. For mid-century Hollywood stars, a prenup made sense because it wasn't a marriage between persons, but a merger between two businesses. (And sometimes even the marriage was done for PR reasons). Open floor plans have long been the favored set design for sitcoms, because, like all theater, the more opportunities for the characters to cross paths, the better for script writing. People saw these "homes" on TV and it kind of imprinted on our society. Recently, I've seen many videos on You Tube where realtors warn that renovating to create an open floor plan kills a house's equity because people have come to realize they hate living in a place where everyone who enters can see the dishes in the sink, and no matter what you're doing you can hear the whole household's activities. Perhaps people will start to realize that they similarly do not want to live in a society in which marriages are assumed to be disposable and acquiring a spouse requires protection from that spouse.
Prenups are invaluable. I say this as someone in a 38 year very happy marriage. I guarantee you that of all the people who got married, 95% of them thought that this was going to be their one and only marriage to the love of their lives, and yet 50% (OK somewhere between 41-50%) of them end up divorced anyway. You can never really know who you can trust.
I once blocked a dating/marriage content creator who started off as pro-family and pro-marriage, and later suggested prenups for all her followers. I'm glad I did.
I looove this!!! Totally about mindset & trust. If you can’t trust that the person you’re marrying wouldn’t either take you to the cleaners, or leave you high and dry (if you ever got divorced) then you definitely shouldn’t marry that person. You should always go into a marriage expecting it to succeed, not preparing for it to fail.
I trusted my ex wife and then she abused me, gaslighted me, divorced me, and is still getting paid by me just for having been a bum our whole marriage. I wish I had a prenup.
You can trust someone today and they can flip a switch and become an abuser tomorrow.
Well - I guess think you hit the nail right on the head, S. A prenup is basically for people that don’t believe in marriage. They believe in partnerships. And for people like that… maybe it’s a good idea?
I think a better way of addressing this is what clearly works. A long, classical Christian courtship. Sex is kept off the table as long as possible. If you aren’t compatible outside the bedroom you probably won’t be inside it either. Sex alone will not hold a marriage together. Nor will most “limited partnerships”.
Absolute commitment is also critical for children's sake. If that's not possible, you're with the wrong person.
Marriages have ups and downs. Good parenting (assuming a non-abusive marriage) means hiding the "downs" from the kids. Yes, I said HIDING. Kids are extremely sensitive to upheaval, and exposure to parental conflict is devastating.
My parents hid their "downs" very effectively, and my little world always felt secure. When I was 16, a minor but heated argument--first-ever, and last-ever, in front of us kids--led to mom storming out for a few hours. The rest of the evening, tension dissolved to normalcy.
"Will they get divorced?" was my first thought. Of course not, it was absurd. But...what if? The fading possibility dogged me for a few days.
It was an epiphany: tranquility creates security. I realized, with huge sympathy, that my classmates from unstable homes were emotionally compromised, hard-pressed to perform well in school. My own one-off mini-"trauma" taught me the negative power of instability.
Commitment is more than money. It is about creating harmony in the home. Bottom line: choose your spouse wisely with the expectation of mutual absolute commitment (MGTOW and feminists--shut up and stay away from marriage).
I'm not sure what I think is best when it comes to kids being exposed to parental conflict.
On the one hand, what you say makes perfect sense. Kids need a sense of stability, and they need to witness marriage and parenting that's overwhelmingly positive.
On the other hand, I've read comments from some adults who say that because their parents always hid their arguments, they never witnessed healthy negotiation or conflict resolution, and this hampered their own conflict resolution skills and their perspectives on how much of a dealbreaker conflict should be in a relationship.
Personally, my own childhood experience is more like the former. Although my parents hid most of the actual abuse in their marriage, they frequently argued heatedly/tearfully in front of us. Throughout my childhood, it was obvious to me that they argued dysfunctionally rather than charitably or constructively. This led to my losing respect for both of them, yet also having nightmares about them divorcing, which they did not end up doing in real life.
If I had to guess what was best, I might say it's good to argue infrequently in front of your kids (maybe a few times a year?) as long as it is about a kid-appropriate topic and is clearly charitable, constructive, and your kids get to witness at least a temporary resolution.
I was probably not clear. I was referring to fights and arguments, especially if they have the potential to get heated.
Seeing parents respectfully debating/negotiating, particularly when there's disagreement but not anger, is a good thing. Things like buying appliances, where to go for a picnic, what time to leave for an event, etc. If these cause mean fights, there's probably more serious things going on.
Your post raises a noteworthy point about money and mindset in marriage. It’s said that money is the key factor in marital dissatisfaction. It would stand to reason that the richer one is, the stronger one’s marriage is. Yet why do we see so many rich celebrities, politicians, and business tycoons getting divorced left and right? And why do we see so many silver, golden, and diamond anniversaries among people of modest means?
It’s the mindset, not the money.
As you mention, religion plays a key role. That 70- or 80- something couple that celebrated their golden anniversary likely was religious—They likely go to church/synagogue every Sunday/Sabbath, they pray regularly, they tithe, they are involved in their places of worship, they raised their kids and grandkids in their faith, they are active participants in a faith community, and so on. Furthermore, they believe and practice the tenets of their faith. The same cannot be said of many grandees in the headlines.
There is also, as you mention, trust. Many wealthy people do not really trust their fellow humans—often with good reason. There are indeed many grifters out there who would prey upon them, and many people who are only interested in their money. And wealthy people need to protect themselves accordingly. But the golden and diamond anniversary folks got there because they trusted each other through thick and thin.
I love this article! Thank you for writing it. My 18 year old daughter asked me recently if I believed in living together instead of getting married. Instead of my usual lecture, all I asked her was “do you think your dad and I would have stayed together if we weren’t married after all the fights and crazy life situations we’ve gone through?” Her answer was no probably not.
Every marriage “has” a prenuptial agreement… known as family law. Every marriage “is” a legal contract when registered with the state using a marriage license. Why would anyone with a sane mind enter into a contract where one of the parties is rewarded for breaking the contract? Having a prenuptial agreement that removes the reward for breaking the contract does more to keep the marriage together. For example, Kentucky removed some of the rewards and the divorce rates dropped!
I wouldn't advise a prenup, but since you'd likely put me in the "couldn't stay married" boat, I feel I should say something here. The fact that I'm recently divorced has been thrown in my face in arguments with liberals and feminists so much that it is honestly exhausting. I'm told I couldn't possibly know what makes a good relationship, that I must have been a poor husband, and that the lessons I learned only after separation about standing up for myself and also just how deeply a modern woman can hurt a traditional man must have been the cause of the divorce. I don't like my ex because of how she treated me, you see, so my dislike of her must have been the cause of the divorce, and not her own bad behavior.
That said, I wouldn't advise anyone against a prenup either. When I was younger, having gone through divorce as a child, I had felt that I should get a prenup if I ever got married that spelled out what fault actually looked like in the case of a divorce and that severely punished an at-fault spouse. I wish I had not listened to the theologians who erroneously told me that prenups invalidate a marriage and had gone through with that because the secular courts are rigged to harm those who wish to do the right thing in an impossible situation most of all, and for Catholics it is a double whammy because we have to get through the divorce completely before we can even petition for an annulment, which means that rather than go through a costly contested divorce as I would have preferred to protect myself, I felt forced to sign documents stating that I felt everything in our separation agreement was "fair," so that I could finally submit my petition for annulment. Everything was not fair. In fact it was an extreme injustice.
For me it's not about keeping my money from before the marriage, it's about protecting myself from someone whom I only learned after marriage was actually a manipulator, a liar, and a fraud who wanted to use me and never loved me. I wouldn't shame someone who was worried about that happening to them and took steps to protect themselves "just in case," and I also wouldn't presume that they don't feel they can trust their spouse just because of that. And I definitely wouldn't say it invalidates their marriage. Some people want to protect themselves in the context of a broken system because they know the person who says they love them today could always change and decide tomorrow that she wants to take the kids, the house, and half his income for the majority of the rest of his life.
I think the fact that you're intimately familiar with divorce is precisely what does make you know what makes a good marriage. :) I think your story, however, is more about mental illness in a spouse or psychological deficiencies (whatever you want to call it) and in those instances the conversation about prenups will no doubt feel very different.
You are completely correct and this why my husband and I did not have when we were married.
Preparing for one’s marriage to end in divorce practically guarantees you will get divorced, just as loading up your house with sugar and alcohol will keep you from losing weight.
🍰🍰🍰 so good
I think prenups trickled into the mainstream in a way similar to the HGTV-favored open floor plan for homes, people saw these as part of the habitat of the rich and famous. For mid-century Hollywood stars, a prenup made sense because it wasn't a marriage between persons, but a merger between two businesses. (And sometimes even the marriage was done for PR reasons). Open floor plans have long been the favored set design for sitcoms, because, like all theater, the more opportunities for the characters to cross paths, the better for script writing. People saw these "homes" on TV and it kind of imprinted on our society. Recently, I've seen many videos on You Tube where realtors warn that renovating to create an open floor plan kills a house's equity because people have come to realize they hate living in a place where everyone who enters can see the dishes in the sink, and no matter what you're doing you can hear the whole household's activities. Perhaps people will start to realize that they similarly do not want to live in a society in which marriages are assumed to be disposable and acquiring a spouse requires protection from that spouse.
You already have a prenup. It’s the state’s default terms. Better to dictate your own.
Prenups are invaluable. I say this as someone in a 38 year very happy marriage. I guarantee you that of all the people who got married, 95% of them thought that this was going to be their one and only marriage to the love of their lives, and yet 50% (OK somewhere between 41-50%) of them end up divorced anyway. You can never really know who you can trust.
I once blocked a dating/marriage content creator who started off as pro-family and pro-marriage, and later suggested prenups for all her followers. I'm glad I did.
I looove this!!! Totally about mindset & trust. If you can’t trust that the person you’re marrying wouldn’t either take you to the cleaners, or leave you high and dry (if you ever got divorced) then you definitely shouldn’t marry that person. You should always go into a marriage expecting it to succeed, not preparing for it to fail.
I trusted my ex wife and then she abused me, gaslighted me, divorced me, and is still getting paid by me just for having been a bum our whole marriage. I wish I had a prenup.
You can trust someone today and they can flip a switch and become an abuser tomorrow.
Well - I guess think you hit the nail right on the head, S. A prenup is basically for people that don’t believe in marriage. They believe in partnerships. And for people like that… maybe it’s a good idea?
I think a better way of addressing this is what clearly works. A long, classical Christian courtship. Sex is kept off the table as long as possible. If you aren’t compatible outside the bedroom you probably won’t be inside it either. Sex alone will not hold a marriage together. Nor will most “limited partnerships”.
But whadda I know?
Absolute commitment is also critical for children's sake. If that's not possible, you're with the wrong person.
Marriages have ups and downs. Good parenting (assuming a non-abusive marriage) means hiding the "downs" from the kids. Yes, I said HIDING. Kids are extremely sensitive to upheaval, and exposure to parental conflict is devastating.
My parents hid their "downs" very effectively, and my little world always felt secure. When I was 16, a minor but heated argument--first-ever, and last-ever, in front of us kids--led to mom storming out for a few hours. The rest of the evening, tension dissolved to normalcy.
"Will they get divorced?" was my first thought. Of course not, it was absurd. But...what if? The fading possibility dogged me for a few days.
It was an epiphany: tranquility creates security. I realized, with huge sympathy, that my classmates from unstable homes were emotionally compromised, hard-pressed to perform well in school. My own one-off mini-"trauma" taught me the negative power of instability.
Commitment is more than money. It is about creating harmony in the home. Bottom line: choose your spouse wisely with the expectation of mutual absolute commitment (MGTOW and feminists--shut up and stay away from marriage).
I'm not sure what I think is best when it comes to kids being exposed to parental conflict.
On the one hand, what you say makes perfect sense. Kids need a sense of stability, and they need to witness marriage and parenting that's overwhelmingly positive.
On the other hand, I've read comments from some adults who say that because their parents always hid their arguments, they never witnessed healthy negotiation or conflict resolution, and this hampered their own conflict resolution skills and their perspectives on how much of a dealbreaker conflict should be in a relationship.
Personally, my own childhood experience is more like the former. Although my parents hid most of the actual abuse in their marriage, they frequently argued heatedly/tearfully in front of us. Throughout my childhood, it was obvious to me that they argued dysfunctionally rather than charitably or constructively. This led to my losing respect for both of them, yet also having nightmares about them divorcing, which they did not end up doing in real life.
If I had to guess what was best, I might say it's good to argue infrequently in front of your kids (maybe a few times a year?) as long as it is about a kid-appropriate topic and is clearly charitable, constructive, and your kids get to witness at least a temporary resolution.
I was probably not clear. I was referring to fights and arguments, especially if they have the potential to get heated.
Seeing parents respectfully debating/negotiating, particularly when there's disagreement but not anger, is a good thing. Things like buying appliances, where to go for a picnic, what time to leave for an event, etc. If these cause mean fights, there's probably more serious things going on.
Amen.
Your post raises a noteworthy point about money and mindset in marriage. It’s said that money is the key factor in marital dissatisfaction. It would stand to reason that the richer one is, the stronger one’s marriage is. Yet why do we see so many rich celebrities, politicians, and business tycoons getting divorced left and right? And why do we see so many silver, golden, and diamond anniversaries among people of modest means?
It’s the mindset, not the money.
As you mention, religion plays a key role. That 70- or 80- something couple that celebrated their golden anniversary likely was religious—They likely go to church/synagogue every Sunday/Sabbath, they pray regularly, they tithe, they are involved in their places of worship, they raised their kids and grandkids in their faith, they are active participants in a faith community, and so on. Furthermore, they believe and practice the tenets of their faith. The same cannot be said of many grandees in the headlines.
There is also, as you mention, trust. Many wealthy people do not really trust their fellow humans—often with good reason. There are indeed many grifters out there who would prey upon them, and many people who are only interested in their money. And wealthy people need to protect themselves accordingly. But the golden and diamond anniversary folks got there because they trusted each other through thick and thin.
I love this article! Thank you for writing it. My 18 year old daughter asked me recently if I believed in living together instead of getting married. Instead of my usual lecture, all I asked her was “do you think your dad and I would have stayed together if we weren’t married after all the fights and crazy life situations we’ve gone through?” Her answer was no probably not.
Thank you for this – it is all so true!